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Welcome to The Q&A with Elaine Moore. Registered members are invited to ask any question of Elaine Moore on autoimmune diseases, Graves' disease, other thyroid diseases and subconditions, laboratory work, traditional and complementary medicine, triggers and environmental influences, thyroid and immune disorders in pets and animals, and other relevant areas of inquiry.

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Questions are answered solely by Elaine Moore, a medical writer and clinical laboratory scientist, MT, CLS, with more than 30 years of experience in immunology. Moore has also authored and edited over a dozen books in the area of health sciences and is an editor for McFarland Publisher's Health Topics Series.


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ForumForumDiscussionsDiscussionsQuestion and An...Question and An...Mixed signs of remissioin from autoimmune GravesMixed signs of remissioin from autoimmune Graves' disease
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 2/28/2009 11:06 AM
 

Hi Elaine,

Thanks for your support! I have learned essential and practical information about GD through your books, articles and forum that I believed have made a significant contribution in my personal journey with GD in Quebec, Canada. I’m so grateful to you and to all the people sharing small parts of their stories on your question-answer forum.  
I’m journeying with a medical diagnosis of GD since 1993. The closest labs I have to my initial diagnosis are:
Indicator = X (conventionally agreed range)
1993/11/19 :
TSH = 0,08 (0,4 à 4,0);
FT3 = 0,58 (0,34-0,45);
FT4 = 149,10 (24,1-66,8);
T3= 8,63 (1,35-3,0) ;
T4 = 257 (71,9-143,4);
RAI-U Scan = 56,90 [24 hres (10-25 %)];  [To bad that I didn’t know that it was possible to avoid this kind of evaluation at the time.]
1993/12/17 :
TSI = 57,8 (< 10 U/L).
Over the years in my relations with different endocrinologists of the social health care system of Quebec, Canada, I have always been under pressure for RAI. I have opted for ATDs and various attempts towards a more personal, natural and integral way of life guided by different forms of personal investigation and self-inquiry. I’m off ATDs and without any relation with an endocrinologist since 1999.
My present GP doesn’t know much about GD and thyroid disease in general. She’s not really open to learn more then what she already knows. I can’t really shop for another GP. There is a shortage of GP in Quebec and I’m simply lucky to have one. 
Furthermore, the labs results that I have don’t justify an appointment recommendation with an endocrinologist from the point of view of my GP. In the Quebec’s social health care system, you need an appointment recommendation from a GP or another specialist to get access to an endocrinologist.
The blood test for TSI (and any other GD’s autoantibodies) is not even listed on my GP official standard request form that she uses for blood test appointment. I had a hard time to convince her to order a special TSI test for me.  That’s mainly why my most recent blood tests were not made at the same time.  My most resents lab results came as:
********************************
[My personal translation from French to English]
 
*** 2008/12/18 - TSI lab
Antibodies against TSH receptor:    < 8,0 U/L
 
Reference Values
Negative  : < 9,0
Doubtful   : 9,0 – 14,0
Positive    : > 14, 0
** Attention **
This method evaluates the presence of immunoglobulin that inhibits the binding of TSH to a preparation of in vitro pig’s receptors.
A positive result doesn’t allow making a distinction between the stimulating and blocking activity of these antibodies.
 
*** 2008/10/14 - Other labs
For the following lab I don’t know how «Anti-Thyroïdiens (anti-microsomes)» would translates exactly in English. My best guest is that these «Anti-Thyroïdiens (anti-microsomes)» are related to what you call in your book Graves’ Disease: a practical guide, p.110, «anti-microsomal antibodies or TPO Ab)» but I’m not 100 % sure.   On the lab result sheet it is written:
     Auto-Immunity / Antiblodies.
«Anti-Thyroidiens (anti-microsomes)»
Result: Positive (normal : negative) [no numbers available]
Title : 1 :100  
In your book you make a connection between «anti-microsomal antibodies or TPO Ab» and Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, primary hypothyroidism due to HT and GD.
TSH  : 5,21 (0,25 - 5,00)
FT4   : 16,00  (12 - 22)
********************************
Before these most recent labs, the latest thyroid function status labs I have go back to 2006. At that time I was not fully aware of the role of autoantibodies in GD and I didn’t argue to get them.
*** 2006/06/21 – The following labs were ordered by a cancer specialist as part of general health evaluation in the context of my participation as a bone marrow donator for my only sister who’s seven years younger than me and was struggling with a devastating  form of leukemia.  She’s is remission now.
 
TSH      : 5,50 (0,3 - 5,5)
FT4       : 15,10 (11,5 - 22,7)
T3         : 2,00 (1,2  -  3)
I’m a 40 years old man in a good general state of health according to my last GP’s evaluation. My questions are:
1.      From my understanding, the TSI lab result confirms that the autoimmune component of my GD is not significantly active anymore. No significant stimulating or blocking antibodies are detectable to cause hyper GD or hypo GD with the particular method of testing used. Is my understanding right?
2.      What’s the liability, of this particular TSI test?
3.      What are the possible reasons for the positive «Anti-Thyroidiens (anti-microsomes)» if we are assuming that it is meaning «anti-microsomal antibodies or TPO Ab)». Does it confirm the presence of a particular active autoimmune disease in my case like GD or HT or maybe something else even if my FT4 is in the conventionally agreed range?
4.      What are the possible reasons for the maintenance of relatively high TSH over time with my FT4 in the conventionally agreed range?  This trend happens even during periods of crisis and high stress like a loved one struggling with a mortal disease and disturbing treatments.
5.      How can I make sense with what I perceived as mixed signs of remission from my autoimmune Grave’s disease?
6.      Any advice?
Gratefully!
-          Alain
New Post
 3/1/2009 1:59 PM
 

Hi Alain,

You've done a remarkable job of figuring out your labs. Your negative TSI confirms that you're in remission from Graves' disease. The other antibody result is a low level of TPO antibodies. A 1:00 result means that results are positive when 1 ml of your blood is diluted with 99 ml of water. Higher dilutions are negative. In Hashimoto's thyroiditis TPO antibodies are very high, like the results would be positive in a dilution of 50,000. TPO antibodies are considered markers of inflammation and your level would suggest slight inflammation.

About 20% of patients with Graves' disease move into mild hypothyroidism. This hypothyroidism can be transient and it's usually only subclinical or mild.  Subclinical hypothyroidism refers to an elevated TSH and normal levels of thyroid hormone. The hypothyroidism usually occurs when the immune system starts producing blocking rather than stimulating (TSI) TSH receptor antibodies.

Worldwide, all labs use the same units of measurement for TSH. So ideally, we'd all use the same ranges. Many years ago, when we first developed test for TSH we mistakenly used a range of 10-20. The range has been lowered several times since, and since 2003 it's generally been accepted that the TSH range is 0.3-3.0 mu/L, with levels higher than 3.0 suggesting hypothyroidism.

Most laboratories use whatever range their testing kit recommends rather than test the normal population since this is expensive. The idea here is that labs assume that endocrinologists will be familiar with the new guidelines and know what they are. But doctors who aren't familiar with thyroid disease will look at the lab result and assume that a TSH of 5.0 is normal. This is one reason studies show that there's a lot of undiagnosed thyroid disease.

In your case, your TSH suggests subclinical thyroid disease even without relying on the correct range. You could copy several articles I have on TSH and do a google search for TSH reference ranges to learn more about the problem here. You might also want to read some on subclinical hypothyroidism. The chapter in my Graves' book on hypoT will also help.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is usually treated as it can lead to increased lipid levels, depression, joint pain, weight gain and other symptoms. Heart disease is also more common in subclinical hypothyroidism than hyperthyroidism. You might want to read a recent blog I wrote about low FT3 levels in heart disease.

Ideally, your doctor would notice your TSH is high and refer you to an endo.  An endo would test FT3 to see if it's low or on the low side relative to FT4. An endo would also see if you had any risk factors associated with subclinical hypoT and consider prescribing thyroid replacement hormone.

I'm so glad to hear of your sister's remission. Best to you, Elaine

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